tv CNN Newsroom With Fredricka Whitfield CNN November 15, 2015 11:00am-12:01pm PST
two of the vehicles involved in the attacks had belgian license plates. both had been rented a week earlier in brussels. both the vehicles found i just mentioned in paris suburb and the vehicle found outside the concert venue. one of the vehicles was found in that paris neighborhood, three ak-47 assault weapons were inside that vehicle. again, whoever drove that vehicle unknown at this time, believed to be still perhaps out there on the loose. the death toll has risen to 132. 352 people were wounded. nearly 100 of them seriously wounded. so it's very possible that death toll sadly could rye. >> that's absolutely right. we do know now that at least one of the terrorist who is attacked civilians in paris entered europe hidden among the wave of refugees fleeing from syria, and that is the important news that we broke today because that is in fact a game changer in terms of this sort of organized group according to the french authorities, very clearly and
carefully and painstakingly planned, infiltrating refugees, getting the papers they need to come here and act as terrorists and send their fighters here. our senior international correspondent arwa damon is in greece where that terrorist landed and then made his way through europe to here. arwa, what can you tell us about what the greeks are saying about how this guy slipped through their hands? >> well, christiane, we're on leros, and this is one of the many islands that the refugees do end up at, not as crowded as some of the other ones. what the greek authorities are saying is this individual basically went through the standard procedures here, and that is coming in, showing some sort of identification, bearing in mind, though, that those refugees and migrants when they arrive, a lot come without identification, so that's not eve an requirement, and then got fingerprinted and but processed into the system. but because there was no prior
record of this individual's existence, nothing was flagged at this stage. and this has been something that, yes, has been of concern for counterterrorism analysts, for a lot of people watching what's been happening, that these people who are affiliated with isis or sympathizers would be trying to infiltrate these waves of migrants and refugees coming across. but we've been speaking with a couple of them here tonight. a number of them actually just getting ready to board a ferry that will take them on to the mainland in athens. you can see some of them coming through right now. some have heard of what happened in paris. some have heard, yes, that one of the attackers it appears was possibly syrian or at least there was syrian documentation that was found on the scene. and they are worried because this is a very difficult journey for them. one father i was speaking to said, look, what choice do i have? i can't live in turkey because i can't afford rent and no one will rent to me anyways.
another person -- he's going to sweden with his family. people are actually in a fairly good mood. they haven't quite registered potentially what this is going to mean for them. but as i was saying, one father who i was talking to did say, you know, look, i can't afford to live in turkey anymore, the turks won't rent to me, my house in syria, aleppo, has been destroyed. people are hostile to syrians everywhere. those are hi words. we feel this growing sense of hostility so the thinking is let us go to europe where we have a chance. the greatgreat issue is if what happened in paris is allowed to reflect on the refugee population, if there is a backlash toward the refugee population, that is going to create an even bigger divide and that is potentially dangerously going to play into isis' hands. >> ar washgs let me a, let me a
on the island of lesbos, hand that island had seen a huge influx of afghans and syrians and others in the last months. the beach i was on for an hour and a half, probably 250 to 300 people arrived in the space of an hour on this little stretch of beach. at this point it was 4,000 to 5,000 people arriving every single day. on the island of leros, where we know this terrorist came ashore on european soil for the first time, what sort of checks are there? on lesbos, there's no border control, no officials to meet them, to find out who they are, to search their bags. they do get processed elsewhere on the island, but it is very quick, and if you are believed to be syrian, and many claim to be even who are not, they get expedited even faster, they end up on a ferry as you said heading towards athens and continue on through the corridor to europe. so on leros, are there many
checks of who's actually coming ashore? >> reporter: well, the actual system that's in place is very similar across all of these islands when it comes to the registration and vetting process. this is where it is very difficult for the authorities because if an individual shows up without identification, they have to try to question them through people who are experts who have syrian backgrounds and try to determine whether or not they are genuinely syrian. you talked about lesbos. we were there two, throe days ago. the numbers are enormous. the beaches are very chaotic and people sort of splinter off and try to head to the two camps because by now everyone knows they need to register. in terms of getting here, people are coming in much smaller numbers because it's a much more difficult journey. they actually end up going to a small we are told military greek island that's about 45 minutes to an hour off of the turkish
coast, and then they are brought here and that registration process happens. one father waited for three days and then he was registered and frinlted. he happened to have syrian identification with him. he's traveling with his children and now he'll be boarding a ferry to move onto the mainland. when we look at the sheer scale of the numbers coming through here, especially if it comes to someone who hasn't been through the system anyways, it is very difficult at this stage to pinpoint what a person's intentions may or may not be and whether or not their travel documents are authentc. that's one of the many reasons why the greeks have been constantly and consistently asking for more aid and assistance. you can see more and more people trailing through, hoping to catch that ferry to move on tonight. but one man who i was speaking to was saying, you know, look, people need to understand that those attackers that carried out that violence in paris, that's the kind of violence that we were running away from. it does not reflect us.
it does not reflect our religion, and we really hope that the rest of the world will be able to understand this and be able to get past the pain of what they've lost and at the very least not reflect that on us, because we're coming to europe looking for that better life. >> arwa reporting from leros, thank you. that of course the island where it is now known one of these terrorists actually first landed on european soil for the first time coming across in a boat of is -- so many as hundreds of thousands of others have who are fleeing the war in syria and other wars and also looking for a better life. joining us now to talk about this is right-hand cnn anchor john berman who joins us. that is the concern, certainly on those who are supportive of admitting refugees into european countries, who are legitimately fleeing war, what kind of ramifications is this going to have for the hundreds of thousands of others who have come? and is that part of isis' intention? >> you have two clashing political imperatives here, the need to fight isis both in iraq
and syria, not to mention here as well, and you have the need to deal with this refugee problem. the problem now is that they seem to be for some people at odds. and you're seeing this political debate play out in every country in europe and in the united states as well to the point where marie la pen, who runs the national front in paris, has local elections coming up next month, shektd do well because she says today's immigrant is tomorrow's terrorist. >> and of course the french president, who's been meeting with all the political leader, is now meeting with plen and he's brought them all in to talk about this and her big thing is finish, close the borders. and this is, you know, being an increasing sort of clarion call from a lot of extreme right-wing groups of which she is one of the leaders. >> and france is not one of the nations in europe that has been particularly accommodating to the floold of refugees. it's been germany, sweelden. they've bp coming up through the balkans. here they've let in not only
10,000 over the last year or so. >> compared to germany some 800,000, and the numbers continue to grow. >> and in the united states where there's been only about 1,000 over the last four years, it's a huge political debate raging where donald trump says it's a trojan horse. letting syrian refugees in would be a trojan horse. you let them in and they would attack the united states from within. the president has promised to take in at least 10,000 syrian refugees over the next year, but that's very controversial. >> one of the things that all the intelligence people have been telling us for years and even from isis, the blowback from syria, not dealing with the syrian war and all these people going over the fight with isis and others, the blowback to all our capitals was something they were expecting, particularly since many of them can come back with their own national passports. they don't actually need to fake it anymore. they don't need the al qaeda 9/11 attackers to try to get visas to trick and fake and all the rest of it. they can come here and do this. and this has been everybody's
nightmare. >> you have european officials saying -- i talked to the mayor of salzberg a couple weeks ago, dealing with the refugee crisis, he said he -- he wasn't concerned about security. he didn't think that isis needed to send people with the refugees because there's enough homegrown people here who are ready to take up the cause. >> you may see both at play right now. and of course isis knows this. you talk to u.s. security officials, you're nigh wave to think that isis doesn't know it sews discord all over europe and the united states by staging this kind of attack. >> all right, john. so taking advantage of the crisis, our panel on terrorism and security experts will weigh in on why the terrorists are going undetected. and we will be back after a break not too long from now.
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i'm anderson cooper with christiane amanpour. there are so many different aspects of this investigation ongoing which we'll cover over the next two hours. right now we want to introduce you someone who lost two friends and she's also an attorney representing a family who left syria. >> she joins us here in paris. it seems like everybody we talk to knew somebody there. you did. >> yes. tonight we all have close friends die. i personally have two very close friends die yesterday. >> what were their names? >> patrick and stefan.
>> can anybody even understand this so soon after "charlie hebdo" and just attacking civilians randomly in this city? >> you know, i still have on mind what mohamed maiya, he said we love -- we love death as much as you love life. when we say this, we are scared today and as the president said today, we are in war. >> in war. >> yes. we are in war. and we were attacked and it is very huge war. we're not scared. we're ready to fight. every single french people are ready to fight, how to fight, to keep stand up and to say no to this terrorism because terrorism
can come inside by different way. you know, one of the mother, defending her, her lawyer, she -- >> tell us who is your client. the mother of? >> the mother of one of the minors used to sue the french government because this boy was only 16 old and he was allowed to go to syria, to turkey without any single -- the boarder ask him why are you alone, why don't have luggage? why do you have one-way ticket? >> and get all the way to turkey to get to syria. >> since the last 8 of october, finally changed, the law. but before, any minor can leave france without authorization.
and i sued the french government because this mother, who by the way was christian, and she called me, i don't know why my son stopped checking in my hand. that's why i sue the french government, not to sue the french government or the french police but to make people aware about that. >> about having to stand up and stop these young people going over. >> of course. we cannot leave our children going to syria like that because they wash their brain. this mother told me i clowe ecll the door. i made very good education to my -- >> son. >> -- son. i closed all the door. and the virus, the fundamentalism came through the computer. >> that is so -- everybody's telling us, even intelligence are telling us that particularly -- when you hear it from the head of intelligence like in england, andrew parker
of mi-5, who says publicly that this virus is coming through the computers so fast, faster than the intelligence ability to disrupt i want and to get in the way and stop it, and that's their biggest fear right now. as samir says, the mother sees her son brainwashed, a christian, and he stopped eating handle.op holding his mother's >> the minor was converted suddenly and she didn't even see anything. she told me, i'm taking care of my son. >> is she still there? >> of course he's still there. >> in syria. >> and he may come back and who knows. >> who knows. but there's nothing to do especially not only because our president said we're going to close the border. it's not enough. it's not enough. >> he also said we're in a state of war. to be honest with you, that is something we have to explore. what does that mean when your elected leaders say war has been declared on us, we are at war, it obviously begs a response. samir, thank you so much for telling us your story.
>> i'm so sorry for the loss of your friends. >> oh my goodness, yes, indeed. we'll be back after a break. marie callender knows that any occasion feel more special. that's why she make her golden, flaky crust from scratch, tosses in handfuls of fresh fuji apples and sprinkles on just the right amount of brown sugar streusel. ♪ so that you can spend more time making special moments with your family. marie callender's. it's time to savor. other wireless carriers make families share data. some way to say happy holidays. switch to t-mobile now and get 4 lines with up to 6gb each, and no sharing. just $30 bucks a line at t-mobile.
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attacks. an international arrest warrant has been issued for one of three brothers authorities are looking for. of the three, he's the only one unaccounted for. one was one of the suicide bombers kill on friday night after an attack. another brother has been apprehended. this brother is still on the loose. that is one focus of the investigation, but there are many arms to this investigation. >> there are, and really, the people of paris for sure are really on tendrnt hootenterhook. people want to come out and help but the police have told them to stay in. we saw a mass panic an hour and a half ago. this whole square suddenly emptied and also around one of the restaurants hit friday night. that's where we find clarissa ward. clarissa, tell us what you saw as you were outside the restaurant just a few hours ago.
>> reporter: it was a couple hours ago, the mood was somber, a couple hundred people here, have a few thoughts, memorializing the dead and all of a sudden there was just a complete blind panic, christiane. i've never seen anything quite like it here in europe. people just started running for their lives. and you should be seeing now some pictures that our cameramen scotty mcwindy managed to get as he started running towards the source of the panic. policemen began to materialize from all over. they were heavily armed. they were shouting at the crowd to get back. we saw women pushing strollers with small babies, shrieking, clutching their children. people crying. no one seemed to know exactly what the source of the panic was, and what was interesting to see as well was just how nervous authorities seemed to be. we saw plain clothes police men suddenly materialize, one carrying a sawed-off shotgun. they were looking at us and shouting at us, telling us to get back. i was trying to ask them what's
the matter, what's going on, what's the problem here. they weren't able to give us a clear answer because they themselves didn't know. they were quickly trying to clear the streets, push the crowds into the safety of nearby apartment buildings. and it was such a juxtaposition from conversations i had earlier with parisians who said, you know what, on friday night we cried, on saturday we stayed at home, but today we came out, today we are defiant, today we show our anger. we will not be cowed. we will not be fearful. and for all that indig nance and that defiance it was so quickly punctured. in a matter of moments. there weren't even gunshots but the abject terror that we saw on these people's faces, christiane, was really just shocking and very telling. as much as people here want to move on, want to be defiant, want to embrace the daily rituals of french life, the reality here is that life has changed. and there was a very real sense of that as we saw these people
fleeing in absolute panic. >> and what's interesting about it, clarissa, there is justifiable fear on the one hand not only given what has occurred here friday night but also the fact at the very least there are french authorities believe there are others out there who were involved in the planning if not the actual execution of these attacks who are still out there, who are still out on the loose. so it's understandable that people would be, you know, responding in a split second when police start yelling, when any rumors start to spread. there is very justifiable concern and fear. >> important to say, though, there were no shots. police said they're running for no good reason, really, but it is sort of the herd mentality sets in when one panic sort of starts. clarissa? >> reporter: yeah, absolutely, christiane. and, you know, just to make the point again that what was really striking, it wasn't just the people. the ordinary people who were
panicked. i was looking at policemen. they were pointing a gun in my face and shouting at me to get out of the street. i was asking them, what's the problem, what's going on? they were just as panicked as the people were. they didn't know where the source of the panic was. they are as you say still very much on the lookout for more gunmen, more possible attackers. beyond that, there's just a sense that this is a potentially combustible situation. when off lot of people on the streets and there's a sense of shock and fear in the air, dangerous things can happen. for that reason they said, you know what, i mean, you can see people are starting to congregate again, but police were saying to us before, no, no memorials, no protests, no gatherings. we need you all to go home and stay home until we can figure this situation out. >> earlier today i was doing an interview with someone outside a cafe. there were two police officers
on either side of the street guarding this cafe. >> it's so different to what happened after "charlie hebdo" because there were, you know, an outpouring of people -- >> world leaders came. >> that's it. and none of that is going to happen this time around. there's not going to be a head of state gathering here. of course they are all due to come for the big climate summit in two weeks and there will be solidarity shown then. but there will be no special memorials, no special marches, and that's apparently very clearly, you know, told not to -- even as you know now, you've seen the eiffel tower is not alight. three days of official mourning. all the museums are closed, the big shops, the christmas markets. >> the attacks on "charlie hebdo" there was that sense, and it was several days later the killers were finally killed themselves. and there was a sense that it was over. you don't get that sense here here this time. >> no. >> that this is one step in, as the french president said, this is a war. and people are echoing that time
and time again. >> i will say, when we get world leaders in front of us, you know, people who we can question, who we can interview, what actually does that mean we're in a state of war? when the president of a nation comes on national television and tells his people war has been declared against us by an army. using very clear legal terminology, war army, army of jihadists, army of terrorists. we will fight back, he said, ruthlessly and mercilessly. what does that mean? i think people want to know what their democratically elected leaders are going to do to keep them safe. >> what this war looks like for france and the rest of the world as well. >> discussing all the world leaders gathered right now in turkey. >> we'll check back in with clarissa shortly and all our correspondents throughout the region. the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company... .
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>> translator: it's an act of war committed by an eerm of jihadists against france. >> translator: i would like to tell all the french people we, the germans, are so close to you. we cry for you. we will fight the battle against terror. >> we will redouble our efforts to wipe out this poisonous extremist ideology and together with the french and our allies around the world stand up for all we believe in. >> the killing of innocent people based on the twisted ideology is an attack not just on france, not just on turkey, but it's an attack on the civil ied world. >> welcome back to our continuing coverage. i'm here with christiane amanpour at the plaza de la republique. joining us former cia operative bob baer, former dhs assistant secretary julia kayem, former
fbi special agent jonathan gilliam and cnn military analyst james bider marks. a lot of intelligence agencies have obviously been worried about isis slipping through the cracks, about homegrown terror. now based on christiane's reporting earlier today we've learned that one of these terrorists actually came in with groups of a legitimate refugees who were crossing over by the hundreds of thousands through greece. how big of a concern now does the refugee influx become for not only for france, which hasn't accepted many of those refugees but especially for germany which has accepted hundreds of thousands so far? >> anderson, you know, we keep on saying it's a game changer. if in fact a refugee participated in this attack, europe will change very shortly. it doesn't matter whether it's right-wing parties or just the voting population in general, they simply cannot accept within europe even a small percentage
of jihadi fighters that could easily obtain weapons and turn on any city because the police cannot beat this. i think the whole immigration thing is going to be in the next couple weeks will be absolutely huge. and again, guy back to the fact the availability of weapons and the fact that these people can communicate and bypass intercept capabilities, make this a very dangerous threat. the only thing you can really do is control your borders, and these syrians and iraqis and afghanis coming in, you cannot verify their identification. you don't know what's going on inside their head. and the islamic state understands these are potential warriors and especially if we decide to go on a real offensive against raqqah, you will see more and more of these attacks. it's absolute certainty. >> so let me ask you, a real offensive against raqqah, general marks, you heard the
list of tough fighting words we opened this segment with from president obama, prime minister cameron, the french president and from the german chancellor. are these just fighting words, or do you believe just as bob baer said it's a turning point for the refugee issue? is it a turning point for getting serious about ending the war in syria? >> it needs to be. i need to go back to what bob said. i completely agree there is probably some causality between what isis is trying to achieve and in terms of increasing our pressure against isis, but i would suggest that that should not be any type of a hesitance for us to go about doing something entirely more aggressive against isis. fundamentally, it doesn't really matter what the western powers do. isis does not like us. they are completely ecumenical in terps of their hatred against what it is, what we stand for, and this is anathema to what
they are trying to achieve within not just this caliphate but to expand this caliphate. so, yes, i think we are very much at a turning point and yes, it is the time for us to step it up and to apply some real pressure against isis where they exist or this refugee crisis, again, as bob indicated, is just going to go off the charts and europe is going to change fundamentally. all these open borders are going to start to close down, which we haven't seen for the last 15 years since the eurozone was created. >> a you look at this investigation where it stands, multiple fronts here in france, a big nexus in belgium. they've been following the vehicles, basically. that was the first break that got them to belgium. what are you watching closely? >> so we call it atm. it's easy to remember. the arms, the training, and the money. all three are going to lead in
circles around the terrorists themselves to figure out who assisted them. this is a sophisticated in a sense that you don't sort of wake up one day and decide to do something like this. they got training somewhere. presumably syria. and money. these men had to exist, they had to be fed and housed. someone is paying for them. the investigation is going to follow those three trails. but it also suggests how difficult it is to find these kinds of attacks and stop them before hand. you think of the global market for illicit arms, ill lis sate training, and illicit money, it is fast, and the terrorists are table to put those three pieces together a lot faster than intelligence agencies are able to detect and then disrupt them. >> it's also interesting, jonathan, what you consider as christiane learned today, you have one person who arrived on
leros in greece on october 3rd coming in with refugees and migrants. you have others who were living in belgium, french citizens living in belgium. how did they link up? what was the correlation between people who had been living here for years and years and somebody who had just arrived in europe for the first time on october 3rd? that points to a larger organizational structure that got those people together. >> anderson, i think you just nailed it when it comes to what these world leaders are missing. the fact is there's a couple of things. one, we keep calling this isis. but overall this is fundamental islam and it's the same terrorist tactics that were used as islam began 100 years ago in armenia as they moved through armenia and killed 1.5 million armenians. we can call it isis or al qaeda, but we have to start looking at the global movement of
fundamental islamic beliefs. on top of that, we need to look at the technology they're using, which is online technology in order to recruit. not only are they able to spread the message to all these different places you just aimed but they're also able to recruit fighters back to the middle east to get training, and then they can go back home. so online is something that has to be stopped. the recruitment and the discussion that's going on online to recruit these people not only as lone wolves but also where they're bringing them back to the middle east to become fighters. >> one last question before we go to a break. to you, general marks. you said, you know, this has to be confronted. if you were giving the advice to your president, what would you say has to be done to end the war in syria? >> couple of things. one is i take this air campaign that we've had in place for about a year and i would make it smothering. i would make it overpowering. right now we're running probably
running six or seven sorties a day. i would increase this and have it replicate what we did against serbia back in 1999. i would really make this a very, very smothering campaign so you can really attack the caliphate across all corners and make it very difficult for them to pop their head up and to portray themselves as this rather idealistic and this enduring ideology that has this mass appeal that we've all talked about and the recruiting that takes place online. the second thing is, look, the united states and russia has not had a common enemy since world war ii. i think there is an effort here, and i'm not being naive, there is an effort here where the united states and russia has a confluence of interest. again, the nature of radical islam as described is across the board and they pick their enemies rather broadly. the united states and russia could come together and probably militarily and in a number of other ways, all those elements of power could go after what's taking place in syria and northern iraq right now.
>> anderson? >> general "spider" marks, always good to have you on. go ahead, julia. >> i just wanted to not let jonathan comments sit. there is a real debate about what this is and the nature of islam right now. that's not the debate we should be having. in the sense that there is a percentage, a very small percentage of muslims that are becoming radicalized for political reasons. that's what terrorism is, though. terrorism is the use of -- >> let her finish her thought. we don't need to jump in. >> no, because, i mean, if you look at what's happening in syria, these are muslims. these are men and women and children who are fleeing a country in which they are being terrorized by their leadership. the long-term solution we all know is going to be stabilization in syria. but to focus solely on islam as some historic religious conflict that's now hitting us is going to miss the solution which is a political solution.
and i just didn't want to let that point sit. >> thank you to all our panel but a we've really heard it all. one of the tings you can imagine the majority of muslims around the world today are once again feeling the fear of the backlash that they expect against them because of what happened here by the minority. and there have been many of the muslim community around the united states, france, britain, many who have come out on friday and condemned these attacks. so in that whole cycle again of action, reaction, fear, backlash, when it really is that group that needs to be destroyed and eradicated. >> our coverage continues in just a moment from here in paris and also in belgium. it's more than the cloud. it's security - and flexibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner.
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they had killed him with a drone. >> my feeling was the world was safer because this guy really was a dangerous individual. his aim was western democracies. he had a hate in him which was so strong. everybody koul see it in the videos. he slaughtered our colleagues. obviously it was good news. >> it was good news. you said it made you think the world was a safer place yet only hours after that news was announced this is what happened here. >> yeah. it's a long fight. you can see the french people are stumbling a bit on their feet but they're still up and they will fight back. that's the way it is. these people have decided to fight democracy. they're hating everything, and democracy is something you have to fight for and defend. it's not something for granted.
that's what it remind us. we have been doing a very attempt to attack and strike in france since "charlie hebdo" in this last year. the last attempt was last week on the 29th of october. we arrested one guy who wanted to kill some french soldier, some french navy men who were going to sail to iraq with an aircraft carrier. he was arrested by your police. so police and security is working hard. one was in canes. there was one two months ago greece. they have sympathizers and people supporting them, so we have to watch them carefully. at the end of the day, we will fight. >> do you think people, citizens here are ready for the long war?
>> well, there's no choice. they impose war on us. they decide to take hostages before we even decided to strike them or attack them. people who think just by putting their heads in the sand that the let will pass and eventually those guys will be nice and take tea with us are strongly mistaken. we have to deal with them. >> as a follow-up, your president addressed the people twice yesterday. he said war has been declared on this country by an army of jihadi terrorists. >> yes. so that as an implication. he said we will strike back ruthlessly and mercilessly. the prime minister said we will destroy our enemy. >> at the end of the day, you know, war, it's a matter of will. it's not just a matter of means. they have the will to destroy us. this people has been created in 2004 and generation have been
fighting to build democracy in this country, to lead a good life. not a bunch or a few guys is going to destroy this. yes, of course, but we already are fighting them. the french army has been active in africa, mali, niger together with the african army. i mean, work has been done and that's the reason why they are striking us. we are a threat for them as much as they are a threat for us so that's what he means by us. it's not a war like the second world irk i. it's an imbalanced war but that's the way it is. >> you say it's not a war like the second world war, yet vladimir putin in the u.n. in september, when he announced he was going to join the fight against isis, then started bombing, he said at the u.n. we the allies need to form a coalition against this extremism just as the allies formed the coalition against hitler and nazism during the second world
war. didier, that has not happened. there is no such determined coalition now. i guess my question is how many deaths will be enough to form that real coalition? how much more can your president and other leaders take of this kind of bloodshed in their cities before they get serious about fighting the war in syria? >> i understand your question. i think that everybody has the answer inside themselves. everybody has to resist these attacks where it is, where he is or she is. that's all duty of every one of us living in a democracy to support the fact that we are not going to surrender to what they want us to do. we're not going to surrender to barbarism, the fact they'll slaughter people, who don't have the same beliefs. there is no way we'll vender to this. our country, governments, states, are they going to get together and go beyond their
differences and political issues and interests, i have no idea. what i know is in my country we won't surrender. that's what we know. >> a perm question. how did you not give in to fear when you were being held? how did you not despair? >> i had fear. >> of course you had fear. i mean how did you get through each day? >> tell him what jihadi john did to you. >> well, it was not very nice. again, i have strong conviction and belief. i love my country. i love democracy. they hate it, but i love it. i neve lied to them. i never tried to tell them i like what they were doing or whatever. i hate it. democracy has a lot of mistakes and things, but it's still the best way of living, i mean, really. we had been at peace for 70 years. great. again, but it's not -- we have
to defend. if you have this feeling deep inside your self, why should you give in? again, generation before us, we knew where we are coming from. if we want to go somewhere, it doesn't matter where we come from. our grandfathers, forefather, stone by stone, and also with blood. we didn't have to pay the price of blood for years. we have to do it now. it's a pity. again, i understand. for families, everybody who is suffering today. but if it's the price to pay, we are ready to pay for it. >> thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me
get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible.
welcome back to our coverage from paris. i'm anderson cooper p i'm christiane amanpour. this is the plaza of de la republique. shock and grief, first "charlie hebdo," now in the last few days from what happened on friday the 13th in paris. the death toll stands at 132. there are more than 350 people wounded, 99 of them are very seriously wounded. and there is ongoing investigations obviously and, anderson, there are so many bits of this puzzle to still put together. >> there certainly is. there was an incident here about two hours ago or so. there was some conflicting information, police drew out their guns. there was some concern perhaps that some shots had been fired. there's no evidence there were shots fired, but this entire square immediately cleared out as police took cover, lots of people took cover. it basically kind of dissipated over the course of 20 minutes or
so. but as you can see, the square is once again filled with several hundred people who are here. they've lit candles into the night. and this will probably go on late into the night despite the fact that authorities have asked people not to gather in large numbers for security reasons. our senior international correspondent clarissa ward is joining us as well. you've been talking to people throughout the day. it's been an extraordinary day here in paris. >> absolutely, anderson. there's an air of schizophrenia almost. earlier today i was talking to people who were saying on friday we wept, on saturday we mourned, but today on sunday we came out the to the streets, we're determined to go back to our daily life, determined to go to cafes and concerts and go on and enjoy all the things and all the cultural things, parts of life that french people enjoy. there was a much larger crowd here just a few